best fita field course

[Juggs]

guys rated in terms of challenging interesting difuculty novelty what would be the best fita field course in oz

seeing as i travel abit over oz was hoping to visit a few for a shoot

steve

[Marcus]

In Vic DVA and Geelong have the best FITA courses, however DVA's is not always setup. That is in terms of difficulty of course.

Geelong Trophy Bowhunters has the best field course I've ever shot on, but they are mainly ABA and IFAA.

[robbo]

Shell Harbour Bow hunters have a very good field course, but they are ABA and IFAA also Lithgow valley Archers have a challenging course.

But there are a lot of good courses around Orange District Bowhunters and Manning at Tarree.

[Robert Halley-Frame]

Somewhat biased view here but I believe Sherbrooke has an excellent Field course, set up for FITA FIELD 52 weeks of the year. It doesnt have to be a mountain course to make the field difficult.



The highest score to date on the course is 359

:D :D

[Marcus]

For interest's sake DVA's course record is 340 for a FITA Field.
Sherbrooke's is good because you can shoot it whenever you wish and it's a nice layout (at least last time I shot it)

[Eberbachl]

Yep, Sherbrooke's field course is lovely, I've shot it a couple of times and it is a pleasure to shoot. DVA's field course is good also, at this stage I hope to have either 14 target IFAA or 12 target FITA field courses set up to practice on at all times. The courses will alternate between the two.

When DVA's bottom course is set up it's a killer :)

Geelong Trophy Bowmen (IFAA and ABA) have some of arguably the best field courses in Victoria also :wink:

[David Rowson]

What do you consider is a good field course?
I have shot courses in New Zealand, Washington State-USA, Wales-UK, Japan and around Australia at Nationals and have had a ball of a time at all of them, on courses ranging from a flat sandy course in Perth to a steep hilly course in NZ.

[Jason Hanson]

The hardest field course I have shot would have to be the Canberra Archery Club course. From what I can gather, is still fairly tame compared to the field courses in Europe. I hope to get over there one day a possibly shoot one of the European 5 Nation shoots. Now they look like challenging field courses.

[James Park]

I have shot a number of course in Europe. Those used for the World Field Championships for 1996, 1998 and 2000 were all different and all rather challenging. They were much more difficult than any course I have ever shot in Australia, bar none.
The physically most demanding was Slovenia in 1996. We had to walk for over 1 hour to get to the starting target (I inevitably always seems to start on the highest target). In walking to the target I had to go up over 300M. There were no flat targets, and the most difficult I had to shoot was 55M at over 40 degrees up hill, having just shot the previous target at 50M at 40 degrees uphill. I had trained vigorously for the previous 6 months and was very fit, but it was nevertheless a serious challenge.
In Austria in 1998 there was a target of 35M very steeply down hill: I shot it with my sight on about 16M and went high. On a course that both Leigh Cornish and I thought was stunningly difficult, Morgan Lundin (shooting a Matthews) shot a perfect 180 for 12 targets in the elimination round.
In 2000 in Italy there was a 55M target that I shot with my sight on 40M and hit the X - just amazingly steep. There was also a 25M target at over 40 degrees down (I had to get 15 on it to get 350 for the round - got 13 to finish with 348 and was happy). To my amazement, my 348 was barely the 16th highest score - I think some genius got 358. On that sort of course I cannot comprehend how they got the scores that they did - they were just stunningly good.
Shooting Sherbrooke after getting back from Italy, the course was just too easy - shot a 359 in practice with my last arrow in the four. (It does not seem that easy now, but compared to Europe it is trivially easy). DVA is trivially easy compared to Europe too (but more difficult than Sherbrooke)!!

[robbo]

I haven't really seen a bad course, I like all the ones I've shot on which is not very many. They all have some thing to offer.
Our course is very flat no uphill shots and only one downhill, a group 1.
We don't have many hills.

[James Park]

For those who think Australian field courses are difficult, here are a few of my pictures from the World Field Championships in Kranjska Gora, Slovenia, in 1996:
The first is of a 20M bugs eye. Note particularly that the archer (one of the Hungarians) has his left leg straight, but is kneeling on the ground with his right knee. It was just amazingly steep - try this stance and you will appreciate it). Just about everytime we got to a short target it was this steep.
http://www.archery-forum.com/4sale/20021020110305.jpg
The second is of an (unmarked) 55M target a mighty long way down hill. I have pictures of archers on hands and feet climbing up the hill after getting their arrows.
http://www.archery-forum.com/4sale/20021020110334.jpg
The third is of a 60M target both up hill and on a particularly severe cross slope (of about 45 degrees). We also shot at a 55M target straight up this slope - I was particularly fit at that time, and had to stop five times on my way up to the target to recover my breath.
http://www.archery-forum.com/4sale/20021020110404.jpg
I had to walk up these slopes for about 1 hour to get to my starting target.
I have many more picture from Slovenia, as well as quite a lot showing equally challenging shots from Ober Gurgl in Austria and from Cortina in Italy. Compared to these, Canberra was a walk in the park, and courses like Sherbrooke, DVA and Geelong are trivially easy. Anyone getting 350 or more on these challenging course (and they did) shot profoundly well.

[Eberbachl]

Hey Jim, thanks for the photos, you're right those courses look crazy!

Anyone shooting over 350 on those slopes gets my vote :)

DVA and Geelong are trivially easy

I can't speak for Geelong, as I've only shot the ABA club down there. But although DVA's top course is only marginally more interesting than Sherbrooke et all...I do believe our bottom course is quite a challenge when set up properly :bday:

Cheers,

Luke.

:angel: :bday: :angel:

[James Park]

Some more:
The first is a 35M target at 40 degrees down hill, with a raging river behind. Awesome. This was from Ober Gurgl, Austria (where I shot recurve), in 1998.
http://www.archery-forum.com/4sale/20021020120657.jpg
The second is 25M at 45 degrees down hill. This was my last target in Cortina, Italy, in 2000. Needed 15 for 350, got 348. I thought they had used up every difficult target known to mankind before I got to this one.
http://www.archery-forum.com/4sale/20021020120731.jpg
Regarding the DVA bottom course: I have shot it and it is definitely much more difficult than Sherbrooke or Geelong, but not the slightest patch on the courses in Slovenia, Austria or Italy (sorry Luke).

[Bruce]

Jim, I want those field courses( as Long as I can hitch a ride up the hill)

Unfortunately , I think that the insurance nightmare will hit us soon in course layout and we will be reminded of our "duty of care" when designing courses . Field courses shoud have challenges otherwise we might as well all shoot Target .

Our Field course when I set it up properly at GTB is great fun , I would like to set up an unmarked fita one day and see how good some of you guys really gauge the target .

I think that I could make it very tricky indeed .

Clint uses our course as a training venue before o/s comps as he believes that it is one of the trickiest he has used in all his shooting .

[Zoe]

Slovenia looks unreal! That's proper field...
Looking at the 2nd and 3rd pics posted by Jim got me thinking...
We're starting to talk about pretty severe angles here...and there are a good amount of people out there suffering from vertigo (be it mild [that is, scared of heights] or clinical [really have a genuine 'problem' with heights).

This must have an impact on archers...some might not even really notice a 45degree slope (other than its impact upon sight settings, feet placement etc), whereas others would have to seriously fight a predisposition to disorientation...

Here in Vic we don't have to worry about that sort of thing(hmmm...in the next 25 years, this tower structure is going to fail, will it be this time?? :roll:). But it's got to be a factor on real field couses... Has anyone that's shot these kind of field courses experienced competitors 'freaking out' or being majorly unsettled due to excessive slope,angle whatever???? and i don't mean form wise [although it may manifest itself as such], but unsettled as in physically uncomfortable in that environment, which you might be able to tell from standing around with them whilst waiting to step up to the line...seriously, i'm interested.

[Marcus]

What's freaked me out on a field course was having a Tiger snake rear up between me and Luke last week as we thundered through the ABA course. Scared the crap out of us! Had to wait for the adreniline to go away on the next target.

[James Park]

I am told that, even though the pictures I posted are extreme, they are mild compared to a few others used in previous World Field Championships. Apparently at one course each archer was offered the use of a harness and safety rope for one target.
The pictures I showed of Slovenia were by no means the steepest at that event. On one of the courses (there were three courses and each archer shot two of them) there was a shot that must have been over 60 degrees downhill. The compound men did not get to shoot that one - but the ladies did.
In Cortina, the courses were set up in the woods surrounding ski runs. Walking up the ski runs (as I noted above, I always seem to end up on the highest target) it was so difficult I thought I was going to die and miss out on shooting, but I had a look at the other archers climbing the hill and they looked worse than me, so I decided everything was ok (relatively speaking).

[mike]

I would love to shoot those courses. That is what field archery should be like. By comparison to that, Sherbrooke is just modified target archery.

We need to set up a course at Mt Buller. The summit there has plenty of good slopes, up to probably 70 degrees. I know, I've nearly fallen down them when hiking!

Pity that its 3 and half hours from Melbourne. :cry:

What happens on the steep up hill targets when you're pulling out you arrows? If one's a bit hard to get out and it comes out suddenly, you could find yourself back at the shooting peg!

[James Park]

In Slovenia, one of the archers dropped his back pack. It rolled 200M down the hill.
In Cortina the ground was wet and I slipped on a 50M downhill target - slid for about 20M. (Shot with Dejan Sitar that day, just a couple of weeks after he had set a new World Record for 30M).

[Marcus]

Anyone ever played multilevel laser tag? Would be great for an indoor field range. Lots of slopes and downhill shots etc. Would be good fun.
GTB's by far my favourite course, need more like em. I've set up a nasty shot at DVA where you really struggle for footing on the side of a steep slope. Makes you concentrate on your footing while you shoot.

We should set up our bottom course for FITA Field, would be one of the hardest in the courty if we did. 10-15 walk to get to it.

Great photos Jim, good to see what people are shooting on outside Aus.

[Eberbachl]

but not the slightest patch on the courses in Slovenia, Austria or Italy (sorry Luke).

Yep, I wholeheartedly agree Jim, we can't compete with courses like that :wink:

What's freaked me out on a field course was having a Tiger snake rear up between me and Luke last week as we thundered through the ABA course. Scared the crap out of us! Had to wait for the adreniline to go away on the next target

Yep, I have to admit that I nearly shat myself when I just about stepped on it! And I shreiked like a big pansie :roll:

First rule when shooting DVA in spring/summer...look where you are putting your feet. I saw at least 12 tiger snakes last season, and although this one was the first for me this season, it won't be the last...

[robbo]

At the state ABA titles in Shell Harbour 2 weeks ago about 6 or 7 snakes were seen, browns and one black, and one diamond python wrapped around a young lady's neck. Makes the shoot more interesting.

[Eberbachl]

Yep, there are plenty about already. I really don't mind 'em at all if I see them first. It's just when I nearly step on them :o that I have a problem :wink:

If you see 'em first, they generally just go about their business and don't bother you as long as you don't piss them off :bday:

[robbo]

Most people bitten by snakes are bitten when they are either trying to catch them or kill them.
Snakes would much rather stay out of your way.

[Eberbachl]

Yep, if the truth be known, the snake probably got just as much of a fright as Marcus and I did :D

...but I really did have to stop at the next peg to calm down before I shot :oops: that was one hell of a fright to see a tiger snake rearing up under my boot :o

[David Rowson]

If my memory serves me right back in 1986 NSW State Championships was set up at Wisemens Ferry on a steep side of ridge. This event cause a lot of anger amongst the regular archers because it was too hard!!!!!, arrows were getting broken on the rocks and people having not experienced the large amount to take off for shots(like Jim Park showed) missed and lost arrows. Also the organisors demonstrated tricks that had been used in the 1994 worlds.

It was a shame for people who enjoy a challenging course but the majority of our society members are recreational shooters.

Maybe one day a club will form in the Snowy Mountains and set up a european style course. :) :) :) :) :)

[mike]

It is a real shame the way people whinge about these sorts of challenges, isn't it.

One thing that would help this sport is to make State and Nat championships actually represent a challenge that approaches the Worlds. For field that means difficult courses and it also means unmarked rounds.

I was practising at Sherbrooke the other day for the State Field this weekend and a guy walking his dog asked me about the sport. I told him that I was practising for the state champs. He was impressed (obviously doesn't know how the system works).

His first question was: "so, if you do well at that, does that mean you get to contest the Nationals?"

My answer: "no, I can go to the Nats regardless of how well I do at state level". It seems we run a different style of competition in archery compared to other sports.

Same problem as the selection process for world teams. What do state and nat titles mean if they don't mean you can progress to the next level?

[robbo]

I think they should select a state team based on the results of state titles.

Say the top 3 seniors, the top 3 juniors and the top 3 cubs m and f

Or some thing along those lines.

[Marcus]

off topic, start new thread to discuss team selections so it's easier to find.

As for courses. I want to shoot on a field where I puke from altitude sickness and leave with a fear of heights.
I want to come back and say "Yeah I was coming 2nd till the guy in front slipped and plummeted to his death while aiming at a 45m target"
8)

[James Park]

Apparently someone complained about the towers at the Sherbrooke course not being sufficiently safe, so they are now closed. Pity, it removed our 40 degree shot.

[Marcus]

Sounds like someone shot a 2 and thought "Urg, must be the tower's fault!!"

[Zoe]

I was actually speaking to the person who made the complaint the other day (bit embarassing really, I said something like..."did you know some dick complained about the towers so we've had to close them?"...Response: "why yes I did know, it was me actually" :oops: they took it well though). They told me that the reason they'd complained (just before the world field trial), was that, if the worst happened to someone of a litigious nature, then Sherbrooke could very well be ruined. Now the ins and out of public liability should be another thread, but i believe the complaint was made in good will.

I agree though, it's a shame that they are "officially" closed...

[Eberbachl]

Apparently someone complained about the towers at the Sherbrooke course not being sufficiently safe, so they are now closed. Pity, it removed our 40 degree shot

I'm sure the complainant had good intentions, and it's sad to lose these shots at Sherbrooke, as they were fantastic...but I really thing it's a bit silly.

The towers (at least when I shot them last year) were quite sturdy and safe IMHO, and you literally would have to jump from them to be in danger.

If we are going to close things like this for fear of litigation, we might as well close the DVA field course right now! :roll: Lots of bridges down there that someone could conceivably fall from :roll: ...but no, closing the DVA field would be silly wouldn't it? ...So is closing the Sherbrooke tower shots just 'cause one person fears litigation...

:bday:

[robbo]

It will come to all clubs having to do a safety audit just satisfy the insurance companies. I think clubs should start looking around now to see what can be done to make what ever facilaties we have as safe as we can make them, before some happens and we are forced to, and maybe have to close some.

[mike]

you might think that perhaps we could spend money fixing up the towers to make them really safe.

Trouble is, in this era of litigation, doing that sort of thing is an admision that they weren't safe in the first place. Also, you'd probably need permits, Aus Standards certifications, Workcover permits, Structural engineers to sign off on it and a partrige in a pear tree.

I've got a novel idea for all those litigous types, NO FIELD COURSE IS SAFE -- STAY AWAY, YOU'LL HURT YOURSELF !!!

FIELD ARCHERY -- AN EXTREME SPORT!

I shoot on the towers at Sherbrooke a fair bit, and I agree with Luke, you'd have to jump off the bloody things to hurt yourself.

I can see it now, you can have the tower, but it has to have a 1.3 m handrail all the way round the landing, with wheelchair access, rope and harness attachments, unisex baby changerooms, high intensity lighting, non slip rubber floor linings plus a canopy to prevent it getting wet. also, in line with Rescode, it cannot overshadow neighbouring targets. The essential services manual must be placed in a prominent location near the main entrance to the tower and smoke detectors and a fire extinguisher must be supplied. There shall be no throwing of objects inside and certainly no firearms, or other potentially dangerous weapons. All exits must be properly illuminated with the appropriate signage, in a range of languages, together with an audio loop for the deaf and braille signage for the blind. (all signage needs to be coupled with illustrations for the longbowers :lol: )

Seems pretty simple really. couldn't cost more than a mill for each tower, plus the associated overhead of a good communication system between towers. I reckon we can have these up and running by about 2040.

Oh, you won't be able to shoot from them though...

to do that you'l need the ................................................

[mike]

Seriously, course layout is where the real saftey issues lie. Sherbrooke had a major problem at the World Field Trial in this regard, that very few archers noticed (when you were collecting arrows at about target 14, you were right in the firing zone for a high miss from a previous 20m bugs eye shot) This is far more dangerous than a slippery slope (that most archers take as a reasonably anticipated risk in field archery)

You can forget falling down a slope. When someone gets shot as a result of poor course layout, thats when the **** will really hit the fan. I can see the insurance companies washing their hands clean of that one right now.

[robbo]

You forgot the fire escape :lol:

But seriously it is a real pain in the arse! :onfire:

[Eberbachl]

Well said Mike, you can make the towers as safe as you like, and you can close as many of them as you like...

...but the fact remains that the type of person who will fall off a tower and sue the club will fall down a slippery slope and sue the club, or fall off a bridge and sue the club, or trip on a tree root and sue the club, or get clotheslined by a low branch and sue the club...

This era is really getting ridiculous - for those of you that heven't seen the closed towers at Sherbrooke, they aren't old rickety timber bits of ****, they are solid and stable towers with good steps, rails etc...you really would need to jump off to cause yourself any grief :roll:

:bday:

[Marcus]

I'm going to sue you Luke for implying that someone would irrationally sue. That person may be me and now I'm emotionally scarred for your non-specific implacation.

If you don't want someone to fall down at a field course, just don't invite my dad. ;)
:D (just stirring in case you read it)

[Eberbachl]

hahahaha, but he's OK in his spikes isn't he? :lol:

[robbo]

I agree it is getting ridiculous, there are some people that are just looking for a reason to sue ( looking for the big pay out). People have to become more accountable for their actions.
But we have to protect our clubs.

[Aarleks]

Perhaps entry forms and the like to field events should include a form that must be signed by the archer acknowledging personal responsibility in the case of a reasonable accident (slippping, tripping, jumping off tower, intentionally headbutting trees to see what falls out.....etc). Getting shot is a different matter. As Mike said the resposible entity must ensure that such things are extremely unlikely.
It sucks that we should come to this. However, it was inevitable, and is what we must deal with. The positive side of this is, I believe, an increased awareness of how important it is to educate people, especially children, about the notion of responsibility. Encouraging and teaching people about their responsibilities gives them a greater notion of self-value, and, equally important in society, the inherent self-value in other people. A culture that encourages litigation, is becomming a careless culture, and, even though litigation seeks to increase social values, a valueless culture.

(steps off soap-box, takes off academic hat, slips on soapy floor......begins class action against maker of soap boxes :lol: :lol: )

Let's just shoot, and have fun while we are doing it!!

[Marcus]

intentionally headbutting trees to see what falls out.....etc
Thanks, I almost snorted my coffee!! :lol: :lol: :morning:

[Kuru]

I think DVA's course is quite challenging and enjoyable. Havn't shot GTB but heard it's really good. I'll get down there one of these days

[Zoe]

Are you a really really fast typer?

Do you love spending your time grappling with funding applications?

Do you have a tendency to fall down on deceptively flat field courses?

If the answer is yes, yes, and yes - check out the following link...

http://www.sport.vic.gov.au/web/srv/srvimages.nsf/Images/club_0304doc/$File/club_0304.doc

[Bruce]

First of all , Thanks for all your comments about my home field course , hopefully in the future some more of you guys andgals cancome and expeirince our hospitality .

Secondly, Marcus I think that I would still be careful on a course with your dad Even if he was in spikes . :D :) :lol:

I am thinking of putting an unfmarked fita field on our back course to test out some of your gauging systems , I will try it out on a few before I make it known.

On the insurance issue , I think that you will find that clubs need to have an RM policy soon so as they can keep there insurers happy. I will post more on this subject after the branch meeting in November .

bottom line is people have to start becoming responsible for there own actions and stop looking for a quick buck.

[James Park]

Bruce,
I have heard so many complimentary comments about GTB, and really enjoyed the IFAA course you laid out for the WMG, that I would love to shoot down there some time. I am sure that you would get quite a number of us come along for a shoot.