Peak Draw Weight Restriction for Juniors

[Bottom Dweller]

I've heard on the grape vine that AA may be considering the introduction of a maximum peak draw weight restriction for Junior archers of 45lbs.

I understand this will apply to all bow types: Compound, Recurve, Longbow.

The purpose is to reduce skeletal damage to growth plates from excessive poundage and consequential potential litigation.

Any comments?

[Clare Barnes]

Any comments?
Lucky that Tim and David are not still shooting as juniors. :D

[Chris]

what happens to the u/18 shootin 90m, many struggle to make it wif 50lbs????????

[Marcus]

I wonder if this is another bad recommendation by the juniors commitee?

Chris is spot on here, what do U18's do? I train one U16 who can shoot 65lb compound easily. He's just strong that's all.
45lb is too light for seriously competitive girls as well.

No wonder Australian's struggle overseas when these kind of things are being recommended.


STOP JERKIING AROUND WITH RUBBISH LIKE U21 AND WEIGHT LIMITS AND FIX THE PROBLEMS WITH TOO MANY DIVISIONS, MATCHPLAY AND THE DISTANCES BEING TOO LONG

[The One]

Sounds gay. Not in a homosexual way, just stupid. When I first shot 90m as a wee 15 or 16 year old, I could barely make 90m with 40 odd pounds. I'm still having problems making 90m effectively :-? Some people have to shoot qualifying scores for Trans-Tasman before they are actually U/18, and with a short draw length this may physically restrict people to large poundages.

AA should not be disadvantaging some archers (often the top archers) who can quite easily shoot those poundages, and those who need it to make that distance. Especially not when archers have to shoot 90m as U/18 for FITA.

[Ed]

Rather than listening to rumours/gossip/whatever - why don't you go directly to Jim Larven as AA CEO and simply ask if this is being considered at all?

[Bottom Dweller]

Rather than listening to rumours/gossip/whatever - why don't you go directly to Jim Larven as AA CEO and simply ask if this is being considered at all?

That doesn't sound like much fun :wink:

Besides I'm interested in what the archery community thinks of the idea.

[BrokenArr0w]

hmm.. i guess i could see their point, but weight restrictions are a bit too extreme..

why not try to inform the Juniors, and the clubs that thye shoot at that too much weight will have complications with their skeletal structure?

leave it up to the Junior, the coach, the club to decide what is too much.

[Archangel]

STOP JERKIING AROUND WITH RUBBISH LIKE U21 AND WEIGHT LIMITS AND FIX THE PROBLEMS WITH TOO MANY DIVISIONS, MATCHPLAY AND THE DISTANCES BEING TOO LONG
So true...

Why do they think people are shooting 45lbs? Because they have to in order to get 90m, which they have to do aged 16 or even 15 when qualifying scores etc become a factor.

It's a completely ridiculous concept, to put juniors at a potential disadvantage compared to other countries by putting extra restrictions that others don't have.

I think it's all bollocks anyway; I shot more than 45lb as a junior, and never had any skeletal damage to growth plates. Admittedly I wasn't shooting as a junior much by that point, but that's really a technicality.

[Brocky]

Bottom Dweller so now your stating that Jim Larven is not part of the archery community :silly:
I'm with Ed instead of spreading rumours true or false why don't you have the balls and ask someone who knows :o :roll:


I will state that I agree with Archangle on this one.
That will cause some feed back :o

I love how The One would be willing to take away any advantage the KW juniors may have if this occurs :o :wink:

[frommy]

I've heard on the grape vine ........

You have no idea how much this sort of thing annoys me.

1. What is your source?

2. Has the question been raised with the AA CEO?

3. Has the question been raised with the RGB?

I regret to admit that I agree with part of the post from Brocky, and that would have to be a first for me.

Brian

[Brocky]

I regret to admit I agree with Frommy on the first 4 comments regarding this thread :o
Answers as follows;
1) He wont have the balls :roll:
2) He wont have the balls :roll:
3) He may but it will be though his club and use their big gun as it was put at the last general meeting as he wont have the balls. :roll:

[Liam]

Wow, I thought 60 pounds was a fairly good restriction accross the board. :eek:

45 pounds?! God, I'm a weak 14 year old and I can pull 45 pounds (Not exactl easily but that's beside the point) Some beefy 17 year old would be being punished just because some people pull poundages they can't handle.

[REIDY]

Time for me to wade into this discussion. I think that most of my posts have been on this subject!!!!!!!!!

Shorten the distances, not limit the draw weight. If a 14 year old can draw 60lb comfortably then let them. If they want to shoot longer distances encourage them to compete in a higher age group to test their abilities on merit.

Distances are simply too long for juniors - especially recurvers.

By all means encourage juniors to shoot longer distances and higher draw weights if they are capable, but don't make them. It is destrying the enjoyment for a lot of them.

Pete

[BrokenArr0w]

Time for me to wade into this discussion. I think that most of my posts have been on this subject!!!!!!!!!

Shorten the distances, not limit the draw weight. If a 14 year old can draw 60lb comfortably then let them. If they want to shoot longer distances encourage them to compete in a higher age group to test their abilities on merit.

Distances are simply too long for juniors - especially recurvers.

By all means encourage juniors to shoot longer distances and higher draw weights if they are capable, but don't make them. It is destrying the enjoyment for a lot of them.

Pete
very ture! i completly agree

but i still believe that weight restrictions would be a stupid idea. i am a 17yo recurver, who is shooting 42lbs..... and my limbs are wound right out!.. ****

if you can comfortably shoot the poundage they let them! What i don

[andrewf87]

Yeh i am gonna agree with most people that its a stupid idea to restrict us junoirs. For me i know it wont effect me cause i am pretty damn weak , but for those who can, it shouldn't up to AA, it should the kids responsibility to decide a weight for them that is suitable.

[BrokenArr0w]

how about this, any child under 14 should have a restriction of 45lbs, u16 of 50lsband u18 as 60lbs.. like everyone else..

u18 has to shoot the same rounds as an adult, that is only fair..

[Marcus]

nope, not good enough

The poundage thing is not broke, so don't fix it.

As said above, make the distances shorter.

[BrokenArr0w]

shortening the distance is the better solution, but that is a different debate. and has almost nothing to do with the preposial from AA to restrict the poundage.

but shortening the distances that a jr is required to shoot is also a brillient idea, one that i would certianly like to be enforced, by the 31st? :D

[andrewf87]

Talking of this months state trials, where and when are they ? I thought the date of this months trials was gonna be changed ?

[Marcus]

31st of July DVA 9:30

[REIDY]

So has anyone ever put a proposal to the relevant parties with suggestions for making distances shorter? I am not having a go at anyone, but simply asking if it has been done. If it hasn't then perhaps we collectively should.

So what is the proper procedure for getting things changed? Do we make a proposal to AV first or do we go straight to AA for matters relating to rule changes? I mean if enough members and clubs were to get consensus and put together a water-tight proposal that was well enough thought through, surely the powers that be would have to seriously consider it.

To put together a proposal first we must have some idea of what we want, so I will start the ball rolling.

I am proposing that the maximum distances shot by Junior recurve archers at state and national events be 10 metres less than for their compound counterparts

At the moment I am assuming that it is only for recurvers that we have a problem and I am asuming that 10 metres will make enough of a difference. I am also asking for the 'whole box and dice' when making it apply to state and national level as well. Perhaps I am being bold, but it is a starting point

The floor is open for discussion!!!!!!

[Clare Barnes]

http://www.archery.org.au/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=ASP0009/ccms.r?pageid=10244 is a good starting point.

[Flame]

Add it to the agenda for the AV AGM wouldn't hurt either :D

[Marcus]

If distances are changed it's worth keeping a bigger picture in mind.
Use current rounds
Keep rounds to a minimum

I would suggest that it needs to be changed in 2 ways

U18 Boys: Short FITA
U18 Girls: Fremantle
U16 Boys and Girls: Fremantle
U13 mixed: Horsham

10 divisions, 3 rounds with U18 boys mixed in with adult women. Easy to manage and run.

[BrokenArr0w]

sounds good, i have no problems with 70 metres.. just 90 i dont like!!

[The One]

U18 Boys: Short FITA
U18 Girls: Fremantle
U16 Boys and Girls: Fremantle
U13 mixed: Horsham

I'd agree with this, as long as not too many 13 year olds are disadvantaged in making 60m.

I still believe that FITA should be lobbied before AA - if the changes are made from the top down, the top juniors will not be disadvantaged. Of course, if they are really top shooters, then it shouldn't be a problem having the U/18 juniors shooting in the Open, and U/16 in the U/18 division.

[Marcus]

Horsham is 40m max
fremantle is 60m max

[Bottom Dweller]

I'm encouraged to see this thread morphing into something more useful than the original proposal.

I'm still concerned about the purported proposal to limit bow poundage for juniors but there appears to be little support for it within the archery community from the postings here.

BD

[Clare Barnes]

I still believe that FITA should be lobbied before AA - if the changes are made from the top down, the top juniors will not be disadvantaged.

I agree with this. Not being able to even compare yourself to or compete against others of the same age around the world seems silly. I imagine comments such as "Well, a 1350 ladies FITA is about the same as a 1320 Men's FITA" would be greeted with :roll: !

Just over a year ago FITA changed the official round for Cadet girls from a Ladies FITA to what we know as a Fremantle. This shows that they are willing to consider such changes but could also imply that they thought about it seriously first so perhaps it is felt that the current rounds are okay? There is certainly no harm in trying but it would require the proposal to come from AA level, and the upfront support of other countries would be helpful.

[Brocky]

Bottom Dweller if you are so concerned would you be better off contacting the current CEO of AA to discuss the matter with him, before posting the original proposal which in your own words should have been thought about in the first instance.




I have stated it in the past he is a member of the current archery community and is should not feel so scared to contact him.

I hate to say it but I agree with The One (s**t, s**t, s**t) and Clare.

[The One]

Horsham is 40m max
fremantle is 60m max

Yeah, I was referring to the 13 year olds turning 14 that year who would then be moved up to the freemantle line.

[Archangel]

Just over a year ago FITA changed the official round for Cadet girls from a Ladies FITA to what we know as a Fremantle. This shows that they are willing to consider such changes but could also imply that they thought about it seriously first so perhaps it is felt that the current rounds are okay? There is certainly no harm in trying but it would require the proposal to come from AA level, and the upfront support of other countries would be helpful.
I think FITA managed to get that one nicely wrong.
They addressed one need, but ignored others that from what I can see are at least as pressing; the 15/16 year old boys who have to shoot 90m.
Plus it's a pain in the ass since it's another distance that wasn't covered under the existing rules; there are quite a few clubs around here that simply don't have the room to run that distance as well without restricting the 70 and 90m lines. Yes, it fits the existing Fremantle, but most events don't run that because there simply isn't anyone to shoot it.

I'd be happy to see them moving U18's down to the Ladies FITA line - in fact that's how it used to be done in Australia and New Zealand, when we had exotic divisions like U15 and the like :-)
I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope though...

[REIDY]

This discussion seems to have changed its direction somewhat and although I agree with the whole changing of divsions at an international level, my first thought is for those at club level. I don't think that the changing of divisions is a solution for them.

We have 2 under 16 girls recurvers at the club who have been shooting for around 12 months and have become reasonably good at distances up to 40 metres. With the exception of the state indoors (and short range at a pinch) they cannot compete at any other tournaments for another year without adding 20 metres extra to their distances. If it takes an extra 12 months to make this distances then it is time to move to U/18 and another 10 metres has to be found from somewhere. One of the girls has a younger sister at U/14 that has no problem going back to 60 & 70 metres because she shoots compound. So what is the problem that we have with recurve?

Junior recurvers in Vic are a rareity with only 12 in total attending 4 state tournaments this year. 6 of these were at the indoor which shows the support for the other 3.

So what do we do at club level? Currently we give them a compound and in 3 months they are on the competition band wagon, lost to recurve forever. Hardly feeding the Olympic program are we?

Pete

[Zesty]

What! I shoot recurve with 26lb limbs and ACE's and I can easily make 80 yds (about 70 metres). I'm pretty sure I could make 90m if I attempted it. I can't really see the problem with this.

[The One]

What! I shoot recurve with 26lb limbs and ACE's and I can easily make 80 yds (about 70 metres). I'm pretty sure I could make 90m if I attempted it. I can't really see the problem with this.

90m is a BIG step back from 70m. The distances are not linear on your sight tape, but get progressively larger as you go back further.

[puddin]

the gap i had to move my sight wen i shot recurve was the same for every 10 metres i went back. wheather it be 30-40 or 80-90.
but hey i was always a bit odd.

[The One]

It will never be the same. It relies on a system of the drag of your arrows, the distance between your eye and nock (for turnover point), and a sine function of the angle (not very linear at all!)

but hey i was always a bit odd.

No comment :wink:

[Himalaya]

Bottom Dweller if you are so concerned would you be better off contacting the current CEO of AA to discuss the matter with him, before posting the original proposal which in your own words should have been thought about in the first instance.




I have stated it in the past he is a member of the current archery community and is should not feel so scared to contact him.


Wow, this is so wise! NO griping should EVER take place on an internet forum - ALL discussion should be at AA or RGB meetings or directed toward their committees, and any speculation on the future direction of the sport must be silenced unless officially sanctioned.

Wow, this is so wise! NO griping should EVER take place on an internet forum - ALL discussion should be at AA or RGB meetings or directed toward their committees, and any speculation on the future direction of the sport must be silenced unless officially sanctioned.

Well said Hitler.