New Score Sheets

[Bottom Dweller]

Does anyone else have an issue with the proposed new AA scoresheets which they plan to mandate at club level some time in the near future?

They only accommodate one archer per sheet, so on a double scored round with 4 archers per target you would need 8 score sheets per target.

Our current club score sheet can accommodate 4 archers per sheet even for the 144 arrow rounds.

[hoyt for life 2]

the ones in NZ are mostly like that as far as i know.

[The One]

1 page per archer does allow for legible scores / arrow changes. I can understand where you are coming from on this one, but I think that the benefits of having a uniform scorecard across the country are worth more than the 5-10c per sheet phtocopying. It is but a miniscule amount from the entry fee. Who knows, you may even get AA to subsidise, or pay for all of the scoresheets!

[Bottom Dweller]

... It is but a miniscule amount from the entry fee. Who knows, you may even get AA to subsidise, or pay for all of the scoresheets!

I don't have a problem with individual scoresheets for tournaments with entry fees. However AA are proposing to use these score sheets for club rounds as well.

In this case those 5c-10c per sheet really add up. Not the mention the additional time required to shuffle between sheets when scoring, the additional time required for the recorders to collate score sheets at the end of the day, and most importantly the impact on the trees. :wink:

[The One]

However AA are proposing to use these score sheets for club rounds as well.

Not a fan of this - our club also has 4 archers per sheet. AA can't really make you use it for oyur club rounds, anyway.

[Clare Barnes]

Having spent many hours as AA Recorder looking at scorecards and the lousy way they are often filled out, I support the idea of a standard design being used at all tournaments. At present each organising committee designs their own and many are not ideal. A well designed standard one allows archers to become familiar with the requirements, and allows for people heading off to their first event to find out in advance what to expect.

Club scorecards could also be standardised but have different requirements to tournament ones. Our club ones fit 5 archers/A4 sheet shooting up to 144 arrow rounds on without a problem, but room is not required for sponsorship logos, state, target number, FITA award claims etc.

[Brocky]

If your club is so concerned with the issue of the inpact on the trees being cut down "BUY PALM PILOTS" move into future rather then living in the past.
Of course if you or your club don't want to move foward and try and make the sport more understandable to the up and comming archers with the rest of us dont use them :o :roll:

[frommy]

AA cannot regulate how a club collects scores as far as I know. The RGB's can control the score sheets for tournaments, and I am with Clare, the idea of a standard format is a bloody good one.

Brocky, yet another looney comment.

[Brocky]

Take a step back on this one I agree with both you and Clare.
Palm pilots able to perform this sort of stuff are not that expensive these days and you can check them out at the start of the shoot and check them in at the end, into a cradle down load the information have a program designed for this purpose great no paper :roll: or dont even consider this and stay in the past. :roll:

[Brocky]

Oh coffee anyone s**t the footy shows on :o

[Marcus]

Better yet Brocky it would be quite easy to develop a web interface and wireless network on the ground so the uploading would be arrow by arrow.

[Brocky]

Now thats an idea :o :wink:

[Archangel]

Not a fan of this - our club also has 4 archers per sheet.
Those score sheets are too cramped though - not a good thing in the rain. Personally I thought 1 page/archer was normal.

Palm pilots able to perform this sort of stuff are not that expensive these days and you can check them out at the start of the shoot and check them in at the end, into a cradle down load the information have a program designed for this purpose great no paper :roll: or dont even consider this and stay in the past. :roll:
What do you say to FITA if an archer wants to claim something? For that matter, how do you get the archers to sign it?
You could implement a setup similar to what some couriers have, but that would leave it fairly trivial to alter the score undetectably compared to the current system.
Digital signatures just aren't going to work for something like that - I can't imagine trying to explain them (or the palm pilot full stop) to some more, shall we say, conservative archers...

[frommy]

Then we, at the club, have to insist that every scored butt must have a Palm Pilot available for our regular club shooting days? :-? Get real. :roll:

[Marianne Rieckmann]

What do you say to FITA if an archer wants to claim something? For that matter, how do you get the archers to sign it?
You could implement a setup similar to what some couriers have, but that would leave it fairly trivial to alter the score undetectably compared to the current system.
Digital signatures just aren't going to work for something like that - I can't imagine trying to explain them (or the palm pilot full stop) to some more, shall we say, conservative archers...
I agree.
The paper scoresheet is essential for any proper shoot. If I only use my Palm then I am only practicing and cannot claim for any records, ranking... etc
No matter how good the computer technology, there should always be a paper version of the scoresheet. :wink:

[Brocky]

Records could be printed of at the end of the shoot once down loaded and signed by the 3/4 archers on that target much the same as now.

If we look at the internet when it first was introduced it caused the same arguement as Frommy has put it "get real".
I'm wondering if he now understands and uses the system or has remained back in the 50s 60s, or wait he now uses the forum without any problems :o

Archangle I've watched archers who have changed the score sheet (paper) as in a 8 to a 10 for example and all thee or four archers agree and its a bit of a joke at the target and never heard of again. :o No more score sheets with mistakes or filled out wrong.

Conservative archers yes I do agree tradition we need to keep however should we all be using a system or bow which has been used since day one or like our current bows move forward with the sport. Cycling has technology changed in that sport or are they still riding the ame bikes that they did in the 50's :o

Any food for thought back to the topic I'm with Clare with this one.

[ColinC]

From what I have been told. The new score sheets are only meant for tournaments. Clubs can use the ones they always have

[Eberbachl]

"BUY PALM PILOTS" move into future rather then living in the past

Time you moved into the future Brocky, :lol: the word Pilot was dropped from the name years ago. Around the time 3Com acquired US Robotics. Since then 3Com spun off Palm Inc. into it's own company, then became known as palmOne, and more recently changed it's name back to just plain old Palm again.

;)

They're just called Palms

:D

[Clare Barnes]

The paper scoresheet is essential for any proper shoot. If I only use my Palm then I am only practicing and cannot claim for any records, ranking... etc
No matter how good the computer technology, there should always be a paper version of the scoresheet. :wink:

Even at the Olympics where the data is entered electronically arrow by arrow the paper version signed by the archer/archer's agent takes precedence and will be the one used if there is a discrepency.

Don't forget that there are more than just target scorecards to learn to use such as Field, Indoor, Clout and Matchplay. And having looked at the ones from all the Nationals events here this year there is ample room for improvement (I am being polite) in the way in which all archers from juniors to veterans complete them! :roll:

[Archangel]

If your club is so concerned with the issue of the inpact on the trees being cut down "BUY PALM PILOTS" move into future rather then living in the past.
Records could be printed of at the end of the shoot once down loaded and signed by the 3/4 archers on that target much the same as now.
Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of your original post, to save paper?

[Ed]

I can't believe Clare made a spelling mistake - there must be a discrepancy in that!!!!!!!

[Brocky]

Archangle no as not every archer on the line would be obtaining records only those that need be printed off lets say 2 from 10 for example would have to be printed and signed. Match play I believe should remain with the current system, reason as Claire has pionted out.

Eberbachl thats for pionting it out, that's how long its been since our club has looked at updating the clubs current palm system :D.

ColinC have you got the balls to inform us to whom you obtained this information or are you going to be like Bottom Dweller and start rumours or only hear what you want to.

[Archangel]

Archangle no as not every archer on the line would be obtaining records only those that need be printed off lets say 2 from 10 for example would have to be printed and signed. Match play I believe should remain with the current system, reason as Claire has pionted out.
Sorry, misunderstood somewhat.

[ColinC]

My info came from the AV executive, namely Doug Devlin. He informed me when he handed out the CD and Manual.

And Yes I have balls

[Flame]

:o :D

[Marcus]

Well done too to the AV Executive for approving eth AA scorecards for competitions. This will make life alot easier.
As for club use, it's not really needed. However it would be wise for clubs to perhaps put copies of the AA scorecards on teh wall and educate your members on how to fill them out.

End of the day, it's not that difficult.

[Clare Barnes]

My info came from the AV executive, namely Doug Devlin.

I hope you're merely using the wrong word and that the AV Executive doesn't consist of only Doug? :o

[ColinC]

Delete word Executive, insert word President

[hoyt for life 2]

anyone rember the score sheets from the nz nationals, im sure they were missing a collom or something. it was probubly ment to improve things butr my peny brain could not add up 6 arrows at once, im used to the adding 3 then adding the other three then adding the totals.

[Kuru]

I can't believe Clare made a spelling mistake - there must be a discrepancy in that!!!!!!!


Love ya work :D

btw I'll be round tomorrow to borrow ya mower :D

[Brocky]

Congratulations to ColinC.
Bottom Dweller keep spreeding those rumours I'm sure you will feel well at home in your current enviroment :microwave:

[The One]

anyone rember the score sheets from the nz nationals, im sure they were missing a collom or something. it was probubly ment to improve things butr my peny brain could not add up 6 arrows at once, im used to the adding 3 then adding the other three then adding the totals.

I think that's more of a user problem rather than scoresheet problem ;)

[Flame]

Well done too to the AV Executive for approving eth AA scorecards for competitions. This will make life alot easier.
As for club use, it's not really needed. However it would be wise for clubs to perhaps put copies of the AA scorecards on teh wall and educate your members on how to fill them out.

End of the day, it's not that difficult.

As one of the AV exec I want us to to use the AV scoresheets
The AA scoresheets don't provide space for 3 sigs per archer as required by AV when the scoresheets are cut 8)

Its on the agenda for the AV AGM :D

[Bottom Dweller]

My info came from the AV executive, namely Doug Devlin. He informed me when he handed out the CD and Manual.


For those who have not read the New Scorecards Manual from AA, I quote from the first page:

"The Archery Australia Inc Board has identified the need for a uniform set of standards and documents throughout archery in Australia. One of the projects developed was the introduction of standard scorecards for use by RGB's and Clubs."
...

"You are asked to trial these scorecards, the Archery Australia Inc Board has agreed that in 2007 comments will be requested and the scorecards will undergo a final review in expectation of issuing final designs."

It appears clear from the first paragraph that AA intends that these new scorecards be used at club level and well as RGB tournament level.

[Brocky]

I believe trial,comments and final review needs to be taken into account by some relating this matter :roll:
Maybe comments should be directed to the Archery Australia board if the CEO scares you so much. :roll: