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Thread: Nock pinch

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    *****istrator Marcus's Avatar
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    Nock pinch

    Does anyone have any ideas on preventing the 2 nocking points on a compound pinching together by the Dloop?
    Urban Archery

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    Ecky Thump grandmaster scott p's Avatar
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    although the d-loop draws the string from outside the nocking points and thus "bends" the string less than a single point of draw would, the angle and tension of the string obviously still collapse the section between the knots somewhat.

    a catfish loop below the bottom nocking point would allow the two nocks to remain in a "straight" section of string, but at the expense of that section tilting in relation to the nock and thus producing a form of pinch anyway. I suppose if you used a Beiter nocking point (with Beiter nocks that have the little cutout on top specifically to avoid the tilt-pinch) and a bottom catfish loop you could avoid the problem altogether?

    other than that, you would need to stiffen the portion of the string between the d-loop knots to prevent it collapsing, which would mean....

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    ...and I don't think anyone wants to go there.

  3. #3
    Red Monkey carrier Darren.P's Avatar
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    The C-Loopy?
    Clint's Loopy - Is Here
    What is it........ Clint's Loopy, is a single point of contact loop...A loop with only one knot.

    Having a loop tied on above and below the nock such as the original d-loop, means eventually the knots try to meet each other in the middle or start to pinch the nock.....not a huge amount but the consistancy of each shoot will be less than having a single knot.

    It shoots just like a rope release, but once again it is more consistant because it is locked into place. Something to try, those of you shooting with eliminator buttons and rope release...... try shooting 90mtrs with the eliminator button in its normal shooting position under the nock...then remove the button and shoot with rope right under the nock....you will notice your shafts going high.......... I have done this and with my bow speed, if my rope on the release happen to catch one serving thickness lower or if the eliminator starts to wear, then it results in high or low shots...and at 90mtrs it can mean big differences in score.

    This system is more accurate, more consistant and more efficient than anything else out there......and being that there is less contact or less material hanging off the bow string, there would have to be some increase in bow speed also.

    I am making them to suit lengths that are required for each individual and the are $8 each or 2 for $15...... just measure from the back side of the bow string to the inside of the loop and I can make to suit.



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  4. #4
    Hinging Mike's Avatar
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    Have you tried the Beiter nocking point?
    http://www.wernerbeiter.com/en/produ...ing-points.php
    I've been thinking of giving it a go for a while now.

  5. #5
    *****istrator Marcus's Avatar
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    have not had a try yet of the Beiter nock points, although I did get some in to try. Beiter said they won't stand up to the force on a compound, and when you look at it it is far more concentrated than a recurve is.

    Won't use a loopy, that puts more pinch on the arrow, not less.
    Urban Archery

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    Sagittarius senescentis markjam51's Avatar
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    I've been plagued by this problem for the last 12 months. I seemed to have solved it now by making the top knocking point very small - two or three knots and the bottom one very large - 6 knots. I then mount the D Loop on the top knocking point and under the bottom point. This seems to result in the pull on the loop coming directly behind the arrow so the top part of the loop is truly pulling parallel to the arrow with no downwards force pushing the knock point down. While the upward pull on the bottom knock is bigger the extra knots seem to hold it in place well, and the part of the string between the knocks seems to sit pretty vertical at full draw

    I've shot it this way for a few weeks now with no problems and no sign of the nocks creeping in to pinch the arrow.

    I do do my D loop differently though. I make it on the string out of serving material formed around a wire jig mounted on the string and its served onto the string - no knots at all. I prefer this to knots as the knots always pull tighter and the D loop grows in length over time. Using a served loop you don't get any creep like that. Whether the above would work with knots I don't know. I suspect that the 1cm of serving on the string on either side of the loop end actually stiffens the sting in the area and lessens the pinching effect, so it is probably a combination of the two things, that is letting it work.

  7. #7
    Ecky Thump grandmaster scott p's Avatar
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    I just use normal tied knocking points and a tied loop. make the top nocking point smaller than the bottom for a little downforce, and learn to gauge the additional gap you need to leave so the vertical nock fit is OK at full draw. I agree that the d-loop grows a little as the knots settle, but that only happens so far - a couple of dozen shots and they're not going to go any further.

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    *****istrator Marcus's Avatar
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    No over time the nocking points will squeeze together and you will loose that gap
    Urban Archery

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    2nd Class Brett k's Avatar
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    Use a bottom nocking point only and let the d-loop itself act as the top point. So looking at the string from the bottom up will be d-loop, nocking point, arrow, d-loop.

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    *****istrator Marcus's Avatar
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    I use to do that, however
    a) You get more pinch
    b) you get inconsistencies if the loop sits in different positions.
    Urban Archery

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  11. #11
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    I had a bit of luck with wrapping/serving dental floss under the d-loop knots and also waxing the d-loop (before tying it) it still moved eventually but it took a while. Tying the nocking points ridiculously tight also helped but they were impossible to move and had to be cut off if you wanted to shift them.
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    Administrator dbjac's Avatar
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    A) Tie your points with thinner material. I use diamond back serving now.
    It binds to itself and grips the serving better.

    B) Don't pull the knots so tight that they separate the serving. The biggest problem isn't the nocking point sliding, but actually that you separate the serving and then it slides around on the string.

    I'll show you mine when I'm back. It just doesn't move.

  13. Thanks WoodturnerJosh, Marcus thanked for this post
  14. #13
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    Ok, I'm no compound archer, but being from the recurve camp, we have our own pinching issues, mostly imagined I'd say. But here's my take on this. From a geometrical point of view, imagine for a moment that the string was severed at the nocking section, the D-loop thus takes over and holds the two severed ends together.you proceed to draw the section of the now straightened D-loop to a full draw, and you will notice that the portion once occupied by the nocking section has a gap. This gap exists not because of where the D-loop ends were tied. Neither is it due to a nock, because no arrow was attached. It exists as a result of geometry, and this can be determined by the length of the D-loop, and the internal angle formed by the full draw. Now, had the nocking section not been severed, this gap should logically remain the same when the bow is draw, and when it is not drawn.

    I therefore conclude that your D-loop is too short.

    If I am wrong, please don't hurt me. But if I am right, please visit this website: http://www.archeryworldcup.com/
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    Hinging Mike's Avatar
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    A while back I tried something that Clint (I think it was him?) posted on here.

    It involved basically placing 2 servings about an inch long just either side of where you want the nock to sit and tie the loop onto that.

    I recall it working well but being very fiddly to setup.

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    Sagittarius senescentis markjam51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbjac View Post
    The biggest problem isn't the nocking point sliding, but actually that you separate the serving and then it slides around on the string
    That is correct - happened everytime - but in my case also when I used diamondback serving. I now use pure nyon whipping twine from my sailing days. It's a larger diametre material with coarse fibres and not too many twists and lays flat over the serving threads and doesn't slip into the valleys between the threads and part them. When I burn the ends of the last knot I wet my fingers and press the molten blob around the nock and end up with a hard smooth finished seamless nock - sort of like a plastic equivalent of a brass knock . I won't move and you have to cut it off to adjust anything but the material is a cheap as chips.

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    Administrator dbjac's Avatar
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    I can't edit my post, but B) also applies to the knots of the dloop itself. Don't tie them down so tight that you separate the serving.
    I still use separating pliers to tighten them, but don't use as much force as i use to.

    I am really impressed with diamond back as nocking point material. It is super, super strong and really abrasion resistant so it doesn't swell up as it frays with use. I just use .017 or 18. The BCY nock tying thread is like .021 or more at a guess without having any right here.

  18. #17
    Sagittarius senescentis markjam51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crosshairs View Post
    Ok, I'm no compound archer, but being from the recurve camp, we have our own pinching issues, mostly imagined I'd say. But here's my take on this. From a geometrical point of view, imagine for a moment that the string was severed at the nocking section, the D-loop thus takes over and holds the two severed ends together.you proceed to draw the section of the now straightened D-loop to a full draw, and you will notice that the portion once occupied by the nocking section has a gap. This gap exists not because of where the D-loop ends were tied. Neither is it due to a nock, because no arrow was attached. It exists as a result of geometry, and this can be determined by the length of the D-loop, and the internal angle formed by the full draw. Now, had the nocking section not been severed, this gap should logically remain the same when the bow is draw, and when it is not drawn.

    I therefore conclude that your D-loop is too short.

    If I am wrong, please don't hurt me. But if I am right, please visit this website: http://www.archeryworldcup.com/
    There is something in what you say - certainly the problem is magnified by small loops. With my current arrangement I shortened the draw length a small amount to allow for a slightly longer D loop. I suspect the type of release would impact on this as well. A large caliper type release would pull the ends of the loop more perpendicular to the string at rest, than say a small hook type release that will always pull the ends of the loop at an angle .

  19. #18
    Administrator dbjac's Avatar
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    And, where you might tie 3-4 knots with BCY nock point material, diamond back will have like 9+ knots, so it is far more secure and doesn't loosen as quickly with use.

    Markjam, sounds like you have been ochre ing the knots too much. It's really easy to do.
    It sounds ironic that you can create the movement by being too tight, but it is a huge problem.

    Basically, stop using the "tightness" to secure the points and get a material that has better "tightness properties" that secures itself better with less tension.
    It's also why I changed from brownell dloop material to the BCY material. BCY is much softer so the knots bed down better with less tension. It doesn't last quite as well and it stretches, but is better.

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    Administrator dbjac's Avatar
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    *tightening the knots too much. Sorry I'm on my iPhone and the edit/quote function isn't working for me right now.

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    *****istrator Marcus's Avatar
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    Great info! Exactly what I was looking for.
    Urban Archery

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