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Thread: The best bows in the world

  1. #1
    3rd Class straat's Avatar
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    The best bows in the world

    http://www.videoportal.sf.tv/video?i...f-b654e6a80f75

    This video titled "The best bows in the world" shows a swiss guy who builds bows in his shed. Shows massively improved arrow speed. I don't really understand Swiss-German (does anyone? ) but you do get the main things.
    Last edited by straat; 11th December 2011 at 08:28 AM.

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    French Electro. Samuel Perkins's Avatar
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    Enormous speed increase. Find it to be spurious at best.

    If it was shooting the arrow so much faster, how does he even manage to shoot the same spine arrow through both bows?

    Lots of questions. Won't be any answers.

  3. #3
    digitus impudicus
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    Er.. wow. If that's accurate testing, that's a hell of a speed increase!

    Here's his website for those who might be interested..

    http://www.heubibow.com/set-pfeilbogenbau.htm
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    It all sounds solid. I speak (bad) German and that's one interesting article.

    Nishizawa already showed that you can get massive increases in efficiency with 17 laminates in the bow, that is build with similar numbers. It would cost enormously to produce to mass market, so it won't be something that will be shops around you in near future, but for hobbyists who'd like to do the limbs themselves, why not. Geometry is also interesting.

  5. #5
    Master of Grumpiness
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    Hi Andy, et al.

    When you build then yourself you not only have your personal choice of material but also limb shape. geometry and profile.

    Personally, I would like to have a closer look at the Carbon Laminate limbs to see what the core is made from.

    Interestingly, he clamps the limbs on the form. It works however if it was me I would be using a method that gives even pressure to the limbs. If you use clamps the limbs will most likely have a ripple look to them - shoots okay but detracts a little from the look. On the other side of the coin I am impressed that he is building up the Carbon Lams from a Carbon cloth.

    The process as shown is intriguing enough to want me to have a much close look as their are things there that do not look right.
    Regards, Grahame.

    Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.
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    French Electro. Samuel Perkins's Avatar
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    When I used to work at KG Archery, they used to make the limbs like that (with clamps) and he had/has 12 laminates of carbon and then other layers of whatever else in there too.

    Then again, the limbs were/are horrifically expensive (IMO). Then again, I suppose they aren't now that both W&W and Hoyt are pumping out 500 limbs...

    Sick.

    He also made this bloody horrible all carbon (solid laminated carbon, and very light) riser before anyone else (to my knowledge) had made a carbon riser, too (1992, I believe):

    Last edited by Samuel Perkins; 11th December 2011 at 03:05 PM.

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    Whats with the limbsavers on the target bow and then put on the working part of the limb I would have thought he would know better sort of undo's some of his hard work

  8. #8
    French Electro. Samuel Perkins's Avatar
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    Maybe it punctuates his style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Perkins View Post
    Maybe it punctuates his style.
    Definitely, speed doesn't mean **** if there isn't some rubber doodads vibrating in harmony

  10. #10
    Master of Grumpiness
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    Mprning All.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Perkins View Post
    When I used to work at KG Archery, they used to make the limbs like that (with clamps) and he had/has 12 laminates of carbon and then other layers of whatever else in there too.
    Then you will be well experienced with the issue if rippling and thus why a two piece form using and air hose to compress the limb is a better choice for a small production shop.
    Regards, Grahame.

    Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.
    Ratty.
    "Its Not ...... But it Can Be."
    MacKenzie McHale (Emily Mortimer)

    Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.



    Francoise Hardy, Sylvie Vartan, Petula Clark

  11. #11
    French Electro. Samuel Perkins's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that they used a two piece form, but that they used clamps to press it down around the limb. Certainly, I've never noticed any rippling on KG limbs.

    KG limbs (the limbs I tested) had excellent speeds, but I never felt comfortable shooting them. They felt harsh to shoot.

    Personally, I think that there is such a thing as 'too fast' when it comes to whatever is compromised in order to achieve the speed.

    I remember being at a double FITA + a 720 H2D in Norwich, and I was on the same target as Roy Nash (A GB shooter at that time). I remember very clearly talking with a friend while watching him shoot, and the two things we noted were:

    1: "His arrows fly very slowly by comparison to other shooters nearby."

    2: "All his arrows are going into the gold."

    No idea what the fuss with speed is all about.

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  13. #12
    3rd Class straat's Avatar
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    Of course a fast bow doesn't have to be a more accurate bow. Nobody has claimed that and looking at the video (the part where some arrows are shot at a target in the woods) this fast bow is far from a magic robin-hooder.

    It would be interesting to read the shown scientific reports about limb shape etc.

  14. #13
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    Two forms and clamps is the way most people whom I know who do their own bows do these things. Plus some manufacturers apparently too. That old nishi/yamaha video clearly shows two forms and clamps. And old Samick video too.

  15. #14
    French Electro. Samuel Perkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straat View Post
    Of course a fast bow doesn't have to be a more accurate bow. Nobody has claimed that and looking at the video (the part where some arrows are shot at a target in the woods) this fast bow is far from a magic robin-hooder.

    It would be interesting to read the shown scientific reports about limb shape etc.
    I beg to differ.

    The title is 'The best bows in the world'. I think that implies both speed and accuracy.

  16. #15
    *****istrator Marcus's Avatar
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    "Best" is the worst way to describe anything
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    French Electro. Samuel Perkins's Avatar
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    It's fine so long as it comes with a qualifying statement.

    'best' alone doesn't actually mean anything. 'best at.....' *might* mean something.

    I was having a similar conversation not so long ago. A friend of mine said "That girl's skirt is too short."

    So I said "Too short for what?"

    No qualifying statement = I'm going to question it.

  18. #17
    *****istrator Marcus's Avatar
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    Exactly
    This could be "The Best Bow in the World at doing Algebra" or "The Best Bow in the World made in this dude's garage"

    Also what I hate it when people say "The Best archer won" or "The best archer did not win" or some such thing.
    Urban Archery

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