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Thread: Peep size

  1. #1
    Grand Master Bowman Ozzy's Avatar
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    Peep size

    Been a topic of conversation at my club of late.

    For me, a fairly large peep hole due to aiming with a non-dominant eye & allowing more light in to enable a good view of my scope bubble.

    Have heard unsubstantiated claims of smaller/micro size peeps offering more "Accuracy"
    Has anyone experimented, or accessed any conclusive data on the relationship between peep size & accuracy ?
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    Grand Master Bowman
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    I have looked at that with my shooting machine.
    I can aim more accurately with a small peep.
    I certainly notice the dot move around on the target if I move where I am looking through the peep.
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    Grand Master Bowman Ozzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Park View Post
    I have looked at that with my shooting machine.
    I can aim more accurately with a small peep.
    I certainly notice the dot move around on the target if I move where I am looking through the peep.
    So Jim, are you of the opinion that with all else being equal, a small peep size will offer better grouping/accuracy, or is it simply a case of you feel that can "aim" steadier ?
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    *****istrator Marcus's Avatar
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    Archery: The game of compromise.

    A smaller peep will be more accurate
    A smaller peep will also let less light in.
    You may find, in certain situations that less light negatively impacts your ability to aim (can't see what you are looking at)
    One person may have excellent eye sight and can see clearly through the peep.
    Another may use glasses or contact lenses that cause issues with a small peep
    Thus it's important to find the right combination for you.


    Example: I shoot at a very well lit indoor range. When I shoot at another range, a smaller peep that's fine at DVA can be almost impossible to see through.
    Or what works on an open target range in summer, won't work on a field course in winter.
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    Grand Master Bowman Ozzy's Avatar
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    Agree with all of that, Marcus.
    Such a small perhaps seemingly insignificant object , so maybe not an item many compounders give much thought to ?
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    Grand Master Bowman scott p's Avatar
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    "better" or "worse" aside, I need to use something that works.

    I used to use a 1/16" peep, over the last 3-4 years my eyesight is starting to deteriorate with age and I now need a 1/8" peep to see what's going on. I have one short ATA bow with a multipin sight which uses a 5/16" peep, and if that seems huge, I tried a 1/4" and I can't centre the sight at all with it.

    it also depends on what your centreing reference is. I like a corona of light around the outside of the scope, so I need a larger peep to make that happen. I have a friend who uses a Beiter 29mm scope with a reducer ring, he centres on the inside of the ring. that would drive me nuts but it works for him. I think he uses a 3/64" aperture from memory.

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    bleeds yellow and black tigergirl's Avatar
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    I think mine is a 3/16 clarifier. I tried the small peeps. Couldn't see a damn thing. I also have to wear prescription glasses now for distance so I can see the target, I haven't tried the smaller peeps with the glasses but I doubt whether I would still be able to see anything. My prescription is around 1.0+. Just cleans up the fuzzy edges rather than magnifies anything. My accuracy is getting better as I can see the target now. lol

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    Grand Master Bowman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    So Jim, are you of the opinion that with all else being equal, a small peep size will offer better grouping/accuracy, or is it simply a case of you feel that can "aim" steadier ?
    Having used the shooting machine a lot, my preference is to use a smaller peep (but I am well aware of the compromises involved.
    When using the shooting machine I am trying to be super accurate. I am able to study the dot position with the bow held very steadily at full draw. As I move my eye in relation to the peep I can see quite significant movement of the dot on the target face - more inaccuracy than I am prepared to accept in my testing, and more than I would like when I am shooting.
    I minimise that error by using a small peep and being very careful to get the dot in the centre of the peep.
    Knowing that I cannot do that as well when I am using the bow rather than the machine does push me towards a smaller peep.
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    I think the tradeoffs have been well summarized.
    The ATA of the bow and subsequent string angle are also factors to consider.
    Assuming similar DLs the peep will be closer to your eye with a long ATA bow and hence you will likely be able to use a smaller peep.
    Short ATA bows with a steep string angle result in the peep farther from your eye and hence you will likely need a larger peep to frame a similar size scope housing.

    I understand the Jesse B and some other pros are using a small peep and simply centering the pin / dot in the peep, rather than framing the housing.

  10. #10
    digitus impudicus
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    There has been a bit of conjecture as to if framing the housing is as necessary as people promote.
    I was suprised to find it being pushed as gospel in archery circles when it doesn't seem to pop up at all in other marksmanship based iron sighting systems.

    It became a lively discussion at the George Ryals Seminar..
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  11. #11
    Like A Boss!! vinnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy! View Post
    It became a lively discussion at the George Ryals Seminar..
    How did the discussion end?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick9 View Post
    I understand the Jesse B and some other pros are using a small peep and simply centering the pin / dot in the peep, rather than framing the housing.
    I guess that would now be my preference as I think it is more accurate.
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  13. #13
    Grand Master Bowman Ozzy's Avatar
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    If a tiny micro peep is used & the peep picture only provides a small view around the sight reticle, how about seeing the level bubble ?
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    Slowly improving Brenton's Avatar
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    As my the aperture hole of my peep is slightly forward of the centre of the string (specialty 3/64 with clarifier) it means that the hole of the peep moves slightly to the left (or right) with any rotation of my string/peep.

    One thing I noticed on the weekend while shooting is that my peep was slightly rotating (it's never done it before so I put it down to the new centre serving I put on possibly too tight or I got the strands too twisted underneath)

    Anyway, I was sure this was causing some lefts and rights as I was aligning the peep by hand to line it up... but it was not consistent with it.

    If my peep was moving 1/4mm to the side which is probably less than what it was actually moving.... here is the error. (I hope I got the maths correct)


    X (peep to eye m) / Y (peep movement m) = A (Eye to target m) / B (Left & Right Errors at target)

    Name:  Screen Shot 2017-01-30 at 4.58.23 PM.png
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Size:  69.4 KB


    Error at target (B) = (A Y) / X

    Error = (Distance to target x Peep Error) / Peep to Eye distance
    Error = (90m x 0.00025m) / 0.12m = 0.1875m

    YEP.. that's 19cm error @ 90m from just 1/4mm of peep displacement. Obviously at 50m the error will the less.... but so are the scoring zones.
    No wonder I was shooting so bad (that's my story and I'm sticking to it)

    A little bit of peep alignment error is very bad for consistency.
    Last edited by Brenton; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:10 PM.

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  17. #15
    digitus impudicus
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    Regardless of this, you looked the part. I have a damn fine photo that I'll post later.
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    Grand Master Bowman scott p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    If a tiny micro peep is used & the peep picture only provides a small view around the sight reticle, how about seeing the level bubble ?
    guessing they peek, align and then focus back on the business view. I can see my whole scope and I only see the bubble for the same sort of time period, after everything is aligned I see the pin and the gold and everything else becomes secondary. that's why I like the light around the edge of the scope, it just seems to happen for me without any input. I also like Marcus's trick of red Beiter scope bodies for the same reason, the edge of the tube acts like a light emitting fibre.

    don't know how it would work canting deliberately in wind though.

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    digitus impudicus
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnie View Post
    How did the discussion end?
    Not far off what Marcus said.

    We were encouraged to work out what worked best for us rather than just accept what was conventional knowledge and to learn to actively adjust to the light levels.

    Also training to preset orientation on the bubble before occluding it with the peep, if it was too small to see or, external to the housing as some are.
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    It seems Axcel has produced their new scope to address this.
    The scope is 25mm, so a little smaller than the usual 29 - 31 size for target - and hence smaller peep friendly if you do want to frame the housing. And the bubble is mounted "inside" the housing rather than lower in the housing. So the bubble is visible close to where the pin / dot is.

    One of the problems in local discussions is that folks ask what peep size others are using and the talk is then about absolute size. Seems like the size has to be relative to the set up. For example:
    Someone with a long ATA bow, big cams, long DL and small scope housing set on a long sight bar (long sight radius) is going to be able to use a smaller peep than someone with a short ATA bow, small cams, short DL, a large scope housing and a short sight bar --- assuming equivalent eyesight and lighting.

    Recognizing that going to a smaller peep is worth experimenting with, since it is going to have accuracy benefits, seems to be the key message.

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    2nd Class FlyingWatchmaker's Avatar
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    NB the axcel av-25 is basically the same size as the shibuya and beiter 29mm scopes, I'm yet to measure it, but I think the 25 refers to the internal viewable diameter (there's some interesting steps inside the scope) they also take a 29mm (ish) lens, I currently use a feather vision lens made for the either scope, which is possibly a smidge too small... I may post some measurements when I get home, if I remember...

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